Transformation Anatomy: Where does the tail go?

[Peanutt_Buta]

Where does the tail go? One would consider this as easy a question as do knees bend backwards or are we just mistaking the animals rear ankles as knees? It's the latter for people who don't know, yet I know there is still a niche of people who quite like the bended knee scenario. I'm not here to judge them, nor am I here to judge people who believe the tail comes out of the above mentioned coccyx or sacrum.

In most of my reading of transformation stories, most people describe the coccyx, or tailbone, as the protruding member or source of the tail. It makes the most sense, really. The tail comes from the tailbone. End of discussion. Why am I wasting time with this thread?

Well, hold on there. Except, I'm going to disagree with people who say the tail comes from the coccyx. At least, visually. Most visual art usually depicts the tail extending from the sacrum or even higher on the spine! Sometimes the error is egregiously obvious, sometimes it's not. Other people criticize the placement of the tail when it's too low as this gives the appearance of excreting the tail out the anus, which can be interpreted as just as equally ridiculous.

So, basically what we have here is what is visually stimulating versus what is accurate?

I'm not looking for a right answer, I'm just opening the discussion. This thread may become heavy with pictures to back up supporting arguments - if that becomes a problem with mods, we should post links instead of images.

[TF-Viewer]

Easiest way to satisfy both camps as far as I can think of is this;

It's a transformation of the body's anatomy, the tailbone is not simply growing from the normal human coccyx. Both the coccyx and sacrum are being restructured so that the tail's point of origin is higher than it would be if the coccyx simply extended beyond where it already is. That whole region is changed to fit what the artist has drawn or written. This explanation is no more or less fantasy than any other concept in the already impossible process of transformation.

Can this die now?

[DangerCat]

Consider that the coccyx in all great apes and most old world monkeys is a vestigial remnant from a time when all monkeys had tails.

With that, compare the coccyx of a chimpanzee with the tail of a new world Capuchin Monkey. Subsequently, consider the tail of an ordinary house cat compared with a Manx cat's tail.

Furthermore, the oldest ancestor species to all modern monkeys had tails. It is mostly unique among old world primates like ourselves to be without tails. Wouldn't this actually mean when humans grow tails, they would grow to match our older relatives:

[Peanutt_Buta]

Well, except visually the transformation has more possibilities than words can convey. Saying something is one thing and trying to appeasing both parties doesn't solve anything. There is nothing wrong with having a debate and being civil about it. I mean, is there anyone here who has studied animal anatomy who may want to weigh in? I'd love to read what they think on the subject.

Edit DangerCat:
Except the coccyx is the tail, the origin, or base of the tail is from the sacrum. Theoretically, I'd propose a second tail would grow from the sacrum while the vestigial tail would shrink back into the bone unused.

Otherwise, the tailbone itself would have to push outward and reverse against the anus rather than the top of the ass. So every tail that grows out from the center of the human ass crack, rather than the top, would be visually accurate.

A good example of an accurate growing tail that I found just recently is here. Forgive the skin-shedding bit, but it works in favor for the coccyx argument.

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/17746212/

[Ironhorse]

You are leaving out the hip shape change that would orient the tail higher, so to speak. Quadrupeds, and semi quadrupeds have the tail diverge earlier then on humans, so higher up. Their hips are also shaped differently, therefore from a rear view it would look like the tail starts slightly higher up on the back.

Of course TF anatomy is highly subjective, so really it's all about what we find aesthetically pleasing.

[Drachen]

Humans' spines are s-shaped and the tail would follow the sacrum, not the coccyx. The tail would probably come out around the top of the ass crack. I think the middle of the crack would rub too much against the glutes walking and running. The movie "Thale" had it on the money, IMO. Digital Circe also usually has good position and angle, even if I don't care for the art style (way too thick).

[genderhazard]

You might try looking up homologous vs analogous structures and I suppose where the tail goes depends on which animal is involved in the transformation. (i.e. Dolphin where tail might be feet)




It seems that actual humans born with a tail do not have bones in that tail.

Another concept is you could age regress to a embryo and then advance from there.

[N_brazil]

[N_brazil]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3263034/




Images start on page 11

[TailBoy]

WOW! a topic based on my findings & studies! i feel flattered really. XD
i think those pics are something else like this:

so U see, it aint a tail at all cos it has NO bone innit. period!

Originally Posted by Peanutt_Buta

So, basically what we have here is what is visually stimulating versus what is accurate?

wait, isnt something thats 'visually stimulating' the best way to depict something accurate in the 1st place, yes?

something tells me that all you folks out there don't want to put the tail down to the END of the spine just because yur all oh so devastated about yur stupid beliefs n stuff. tails that R placed higher on the hips would work ONLY ON A COSTUME but if the tail is higher, then whut about when you lay down? wouldnt the tail bulge into the back causing discomfort?
PLUS if what i studied in anatomy class is correct would relocating the sacrum screw up evrything in the body's posture n stuff? not to mention putting WAY too much pressure on the back n body eh?
look at the tail in EVERYTHING according to lifeforms:

i mean, look at how smooth n beautiful the tail looks when its all nice & smooth rather that something just 'lumping' out of the lower back.

oh yeah, heeeeres an image that proves that tails ARE GROWN from the right place:

there you see? if somone were to grow a tail it would just grow out from where it was in the FIRST place & not dislodge itself n get all complex n stuff.
now lets just all follow our proper anatomy like you would study in art class or an important exam & just follow yur honesty rather than just 'living with an unproven opinion'?
heck many scientists & teachers out there had to rethink their studies & suck up to their goofs so im sure many of you can, right?
and thats the end of my 1st amendment preaching m;kay?

[Skalla-Grimm]

Clearly this is the only correct answer:

[lonewarrior]

lets ask ginger