What's Missing: Loss of Strength

[DollyBonnie]

My brother and I were talking about shrinking today and we both realized one thing we don't see a lot of is how someone who is in the process of being shrunk would get weaker.

The way we figure it, as a person gets smaller, everything around them gets bigger. And if we ignore the "Ant-Man" premise of reduction, then those items would relatively gain weight. For instance, your shirt would suddenly become too heavy and actually help "trap" you. I always favored the idea that a person who is being shrunk would be forced down onto their knees or fall down as their clothes become heavier.

Just something that I think adds to thrill of the reduction. Anyone else like this little detail or is it just us?

[vid]

Originally Posted by DollyBonnie

My brother and I were talking about shrinking today and we both realized one thing we don't see a lot of is how someone who is in the process of being shrunk would get weaker.

The way we figure it, as a person gets smaller, everything around them gets bigger. And if we ignore the "Ant-Man" premise of reduction, then those items would relatively gain weight. For instance, your shirt would suddenly become too heavy and actually help "trap" you. I always favored the idea that a person who is being shrunk would be forced down onto their knees or fall down as their clothes become heavier.

Just something that I think adds to thrill of the reduction. Anyone else like this little detail or is it just us?

Sure, though it's worth considering how much it plays into the scenario. I've seen tropes about being trapped by clothes or trying lift formerly small objects as a given in a broader shrinking story, but how about where strength is a major focus? It can be in 2 ways:

1) A strong woman becomes tiny, thus negating their power except compaired to other tiny women: an inch-tall Wonder Woman can lift a penny over her head, but is still no match for a normal sized person's hand.

2) The shrinking process is more about body transformation leading to loss of muscle and stature: a burly 6ft tall amazon who can toss boulders becomes a skinny 4ft tall pipsqueak who can't lift a sword.

I think part of the thrill of transformation is affecting one's identity and, while not being able to hold up regular sized clothes would be jarring to anyone, I think having strength being more tied to who a person thinks they are and then sapping them of it would have a bigger impact.

Does that make sense?

[Prof_Sai]

The standard calculation is:

X linear size reduction.
X^2 strength reduction.
X^3 weight reduction.

So other objects feel heavier, but we ourselves feel light and springy. We can run surprisingly fast - moving our legs about as fast as you can wiggle your fingers. General abilities would be like an animal of similar size. You wouldn't be able to trap a mouse by throwing a blouse over it. Most of the weight of the shirt would be on the ground, not the mouse.

Of course in fantasy you can make any rules you want for your specific shrinking mechanism. Getting trapped in your clothes is more likely to be about getting lost. Of course if she was carrying something heavy at the time, that could pin her down.

===========================
For Viz's example of Wonder Woman lifting a penny:

- A penny weighs 2.5 grams.
- Wonder Woman (Gal Gadot) is 70", so let's use a 70x size change.
- If we enlarge a penny by 70 cubed (343000x), it weighs 875.5 kilograms..
- but if instead we shrink Gal Gadot to one inch we use the square, not the cube to calculate her new strength: 70 squared equals 12250x, so she is that much weaker, not 343000x weaker.
- So the tiny actress feels the penny as if it weighed 12.25 Kg or 27 pounds.. So it's a struggle, but she could lift it without visual effects. And Wonder Woman could easily throw it in the evil shrinker's face.

[Tina Tiny]

That's an awesome analysis!!!

[OhZone]

Oh Wow! I didn't know Sai was a shrink math genius!

[Prof_Sai]

Tremble before my powers of math!

[DollyBonnie]

Wow that was really impressive! And I guess a lot of that (physically) does make sense.

But sadly, I will probably prefer the fantasy where my clothes are heavier (or at least feel heavier) as I get small. Adds to it I think.

[Mathai]

Originally Posted by DollyBonnie

Wow that was really impressive! And I guess a lot of that (physically) does make sense.

But sadly, I will probably prefer the fantasy where my clothes are heavier (or at least feel heavier) as I get small. Adds to it I think.

I think it would get heavier, just not so much that it pins down is what they were saying. The comparison of regular size you to your shirt has you weighing more than the fabric. But as you get smaller, your weight comparison begins to skew towards the static in size object until its total weight is greater than yours. As that disparity increases more and more against you, you still can more part of it without needing to move the whole.

As you are now, its like moving a...well a shirt. =p But at half size, you are now struggling against something more similar to a large and heavy blanket draped over your shoulders before collapsing in on top of your head. When under a foot tall, those blankets are the waterless equivalent of a soaked bed set that you wouldn't be able to find your way out from underneath without much effort. Eventually, I do think that you would be small enough that the few inches left of you is just a mixture of too small, too lost, and too exhausted to get out without someone's help.

[Mike_sw_77]

*stands up clapping* this is a debate I can get behind!!

[HD1000]

The strengh can be modified with different situation.

For example: in Marvel's Universe, there are the Pym Particles, which allow everyone to shrink, but the person still has the same strengh than the normal size. (Even in first Ant-Man movie, this scenario is spoken by Hank Pym)

So, it depends of the storyteller thoughts.

[Prof_Sai]

The problem with the Pym Particle scenario is that if your mass and strength do not decrease, then neither would your weight. 100 lbs concentrated to the size of an ant would punch holes in the floor for every step you took.

As you are now, its like moving a...well a shirt. =p But at half size, you are now struggling against something more similar to a large and heavy blanket draped over your shoulders before collapsing in on top of your head.

If you become 1/4 height, your shirt will seem to weigh as much as 16 shirts, (about 5 pounds) and be quite unbalanced. The size and awkwardness of it would be a bigger problem then the weight. You would have to abandon it in order to run.

[Mathai]

Originally Posted by Prof_Sai

The problem with the Pym Particle scenario is that if your mass and strength do not decrease, then neither would your weight. 100 lbs concentrated to the size of an ant would punch holes in the floor for every step you took.



If you become 1/4 height, your shirt will seem to weigh as much as 16 shirts, (about 5 pounds) and be quite unbalanced. The size and awkwardness of it would be a bigger problem then the weight. You would have to abandon it in order to run.

Yeah that part about Ant Man movie never made much sense to me. Too many plot holes, does that all mean the Wasp really can't fly on those tiny wings if she is still the same in every way but height?


I agree on needing to ditch the shirt if you want to be mobile, but if the reduction was fast and extreme enough then it might not be possible to escape in time. The amount of fabric you need to displace would only be increasing while the distance the shrunken person can displace the material would decrease.

Also the shock of what was happening could likely slow reaction times, making the problem even worse before you start. If it stopped at 1/4 height or something else that still left enough size to maneuver it wouldn't ensnare the person. But at what point WOULD the combination of size and weight become too much? If 1/4 height results in 16 shirts, is my math right to say that 1/4 to 1/16 (The same percentage of shrink again) would result in 256 shirt equivalent, all layered and much larger than the subject Miss Dolly Bonnie? If she couldn't or wouldn't escape in time to be engulfed, I think its fair to say she would be quite trapped between the weight and exhaustion. If not then, what point would you say is the threshold?