Is BE sexist?

[Rutland43]

I've wondered about this as well, and I think it comes down to how it presents women. Now clearly, as many have already pointed out, this depends hugely on context, but I think we can also consider how the very idea of BE affects our idea of women. Clearly there is an inherently sexual component, but being sexy doesn't inherently demean women (at least, as far as most feminists, including myself, are concerned, though others would disagree). By extension focusing on one characteristic generally considered to be attractive isn't misogynistic per se. Interestingly, according this page (which I arrived through a Google typo), just over a third of breastexpansion.net's audience is female.

Now, just because women do something doesn't mean it encourages a healthy female body image, and I think that if you were to examine it out of any context at all BE you could conclude that since BE encourages a 'bigger is better' view of the female body, it brings an unhealthy pressure on women. And yet, the BE community as a whole seems rather good natured. A couple of people in this thread have already described BE as a 'silly fetish', and it is and we know it as such. We don't actually judge the women we know on their breast size. We know that we fetishise the impossible and the ridiculous, and while we find it titilating, I couldn't think of anything more terrifying, ridiculous, pitiful and off-putting than a woman with the breast sizes we imagine. Large-breasted women complain that their breasts become a large part of the way people identify them and that they are viewed in a more sexual way. Generally, I get the impression (though I'd be interested to hear others views on this) that the BE community doesn't actually want women to have larger breasts in reality; part of the enjoyment is in how far removed from reality it is.

The good-humoured community reflects, I think, the fact that BE is a relatively benign fetish. It makes no inherent statement on power relations between genders. (Although, as others have pointed out, this depends entirely on the way the BE is presented. The best scenarios, in my opinion, are those that take an enlightened view of gender relations; they are after all so much more believable). Since so much of it is imagined in either writing or in drawing, then the sense of unreality is hightened, and in addition there is no such worry as there is with photographic material with regards to what extent the girls are exploited and how they feel about themselves.

Because it focuses on something so patently impossible, BE could actually be argued to be more progressive than most forms of female objectification. Rather than idealising women as they could be and so encouraging an idea of how they should be (in the manner of porn, lads mags, beer adverts and, actually, huge amounts of our culture), BE idealises women as they could never be, and in that way lets real women off the hook, as it were. There is no point aspiring to something that is inherently a fantasy.

Finally, I'd point out that I think men are actually quite good at not associating women they obectify with women they actually interact with. They compartmentalise their experiences; they expect one thing of porn stars, but something quite different from real women. I don't think there needs to be any great fear that BE encourages men to think a certain way; as I keep coming back to, I think it's essential silliness (and the humour the community treats it with) prevents it from having much of an effect.

I never foresaw my feminism and my fetish coming together in quite this way.

[Muhznit]

Originally Posted by Rutland43

Because it focuses on something so patently impossible, BE could actually be argued to be more progressive than most forms of female objectification. Rather than idealising women as they could be and so encouraging an idea of how they should be (in the manner of porn, lads mags, beer adverts and, actually, huge amounts of our culture), BE idealises women as they could never be, and in that way lets real women off the hook, as it were. There is no point aspiring to something that is inherently a fantasy.

First off, I'd like to welcome you to the forum. Second, I'd like to thank you for emphasizing the surrealistic side of this fetish as a means of comforting real women.

As for my points of view on the question, consider this:
If Women were the dominating gender as opposed to women, would they be somewhere on a similar forum, in the "Penis Extension" section, wondering "Is PE sexist?", or "Is PE objectifying towards men?" or whatever the question of morality may be.

The point is, as long as there are two genders, one of which with a more dominating feel over the other, the question will rise, but even if the roles were swapped, again, it would still rise at one point, to which we should probably respond, "If Breast Expansion/Penis Extension is objectifying, or demeaning, to the opposite gender, then shouldn't the other be objectifying or demeaning to my gender?"

I believe the objectification of women is NOT something caused by BE, but caused by the dominance of a particular gender in this world. Why? Because I'm sure that if we were all a bunch of dickgirls we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[Snowglare]

Originally Posted by Rutland43

Generally, I get the impression (though I'd be interested to hear others views on this) that the BE community doesn't actually want women to have larger breasts in reality; part of the enjoyment is in how far removed from reality it is.

I get the impression that many see BE as a means to an end, that end being huge breasted women. I could be missing some inside joke or something, but when visiting the BEA forums, I've seen people encouraging implants, ignoring expansion entirely to focus on the end result, and treating big-breasted models (natural or artificial) as minor celebrities. I've also seen more than a few people say they can't date women who don't reach a minimum cup size.

Originally Posted by Rutland43

Because it focuses on something so patently impossible, BE could actually be argued to be more progressive than most forms of female objectification. Rather than idealising women as they could be and so encouraging an idea of how they should be (in the manner of porn, lads mags, beer adverts and, actually, huge amounts of our culture), BE idealises women as they could never be, and in that way lets real women off the hook, as it were. There is no point aspiring to something that is inherently a fantasy.

Finally, I'd point out that I think men are actually quite good at not associating women they obectify with women they actually interact with. They compartmentalise their experiences; they expect one thing of porn stars, but something quite different from real women. I don't think there needs to be any great fear that BE encourages men to think a certain way; as I keep coming back to, I think it's essential silliness (and the humour the community treats it with) prevents it from having much of an effect.

It varies from person to person. I view BE as fantastic, but aside from the rapid, magical expansion (and perhaps magical firmness), I like it to be realistic. I'm not into BE for breasts you need wheelbarrows to cart around, nor ones that orbit the Sun. Neither do I think it's silly. It's sexy, and one of the most easily realized fetishes. You can get falsies to act it out, or if change isn't important to you, go for big boobs.

I must disagree that BE doesn't cause image problems. It too often takes the form of a realistically attainable result, and does encourage men to seek out larger than average chests. I don't think it's inherently evil - I agree that BE can be treated as pure fantasy - but I don't take as optimistic a view as you on how it is treated. I lump it in with mainstream examples of unrealistic body images. It's one more example of a form a woman could have but often doesn't. As surely as there are people who ignore anorexia to focus on how good a skinny woman looks, there are people who ignore the bags of silicone to focus on how big a woman's boobs are.

In other words, people don't dream of flying because it's impossible.

[100Proof]

Originally Posted by Snowglare

I get the impression that many see BE as a means to an end, that end being huge breasted women. I could be missing some inside joke or something, but when visiting the BEA forums, I've seen people encouraging implants, ignoring expansion entirely to focus on the end result, and treating big-breasted models (natural or artificial) as minor celebrities. I've also seen more than a few people say they can't date women who don't reach a minimum cup size.

You might not want to use the BEA forums as an example for what BE is. The site as a whole is still the biggest home of BE-related material on the web, but the forums have long ceased to be a place for discussion of BE and instead become, as you said, a hub for big-breasted model worship. Nothing inherently wrong with that... a lot of good people there and they're more than welcome to discuss whatever their heart desires. However, what the majority of their hearts desire simply isn't BE any more. It's just another porn forum. Sad really. I imagine that's the reason why most of the original heads have moved on to places like this.

As has been stated over and over, it's really a matter of context. BE in and of itself is fairly neutral. It can be viewed as either a female empowerment fantasy (that some men find sexually exciting) or as male objectification of the female form.