Bubble Gum Popped - Querying the "Bimbo" stance

[Alchemical Night]

Hi there,


It's been a while since last raising a subject here, and on the Process more widely - a fact in no small part ascribed to RL and other such demands on my time. Still, that has given a little time for thought and allowance for a certain curiosity to rise to the surface.


To elaborate on the title of my post - as is a habit, I'll admit - I would like to propose two queries to the community at large, and most particularly to those who have a liking for the "Bimbo" in either representation or tendency, as seen most memorably on the site's well known "Bimbo/Mind Control" thread, and to a lesser extent in the "More general/increased beauty" thread too.


My ideas are not particularly ground breaking, though it occurred to me to circulate this curiosity, as I cannot recall seeing these, too much, around or in most recent media discussed.


1) Could it be said the popular, recognisable "Bimbo" archetype has ever been deconstructed in relevant media, or that related to our forum?


2) Has it ever been that the "Bimbo" archetype, as either a outcome or perhaps a phase, has been subverted?


All and any insight is appreciated as, though this subject is very familiar to me, I have not particularly engaged with it with the investment that others have, in the past ^^;.


Thanks,


Alchemical Night.

[danielsangeo]

Personally, I feel that there are two groups that are sometimes melded into one under the "bimbo" umbrella. You have the group that just want to have fun and be sexy. Then you have the other that more rightly would be called "airheads" or those with low intelligence. Sometimes these overlap but I don't think one necessarily implies the other.

The 'archetype', as it were, I think was subverted beautifully in the movie version of "Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs" with Sam Sparks.

[Alchemical Night]

Hi again,


Hmm... interesting perspectives, and more so with the use of classifications too to further elaborate on the "Bimbo" state. Considering this, I have been musing on a concept that could conflate with a subversion or deconstruction of a "Bimbo" profile.


Considering the perception of such a person's dynamic in many narratives, how might the forum feel about a story that sported a "Bimbo" lead - though in such a fashion that they would self-conscious of their disposition and perhaps circuitously use that to the betterment of others or with a wider, more constructive goal in mind?


Though certainly not definitive examples - perhaps, arguably, partial manifestations of this notion - can be found in the characters of Yuri (Dirty Pair Flash) and Shizuka Marikawa (High School of the Dead). In summary, Yuri http://chan.sankakucomplex.com/post/show/1997330 (in the 90's remake of the earlier Dirty Pair franchise) is described as "sugar coated death" and can be considered shallow or vapid, though when necessary is a remarkable combatant, skilled swordswoman and with occasioned rich insight, as well.


Shizuka http://chan.sankakucomplex.com/post/show/1359111 , in turn, can seem flirtatious, lackadaisical and removed; qualities contrasted with her marked medical knowledge and holistic, critical thinking, at times.


Both characters, in their own way, can be engaging as part of a wider narrative. Still, this was as part of a duo (Kei and Yuri) or a group (the Fujimi survivor group). In turn, though, would a similar character be able to hold interest by themselves, or with other characters in tow?


Thanks,


Alchemical Night.

[Katsumend]

Originally Posted by Alchemical Night

Hi there,


It's been a while since last raising a subject here, and on the Process more widely - a fact in no small part ascribed to RL and other such demands on my time. Still, that has given a little time for thought and allowance for a certain curiosity to rise to the surface.


To elaborate on the title of my post - as is a habit, I'll admit - I would like to propose two queries to the community at large, and most particularly to those who have a liking for the "Bimbo" in either representation or tendency, as seen most memorably on the site's well known "Bimbo/Mind Control" thread, and to a lesser extent in the "More general/increased beauty" thread too.


My ideas are not particularly ground breaking, though it occurred to me to circulate this curiosity, as I cannot recall seeing these, too much, around or in most recent media discussed.


1) Could it be said the popular, recognisable "Bimbo" archetype has ever been deconstructed in relevant media, or that related to our forum?


2) Has it ever been that the "Bimbo" archetype, as either a outcome or perhaps a phase, has been subverted?


All and any insight is appreciated as, though this subject is very familiar to me, I have not particularly engaged with it with the investment that others have, in the past ^^;.


Thanks,


Alchemical Night.

Maybe but I doubt it. The role of a bimbo is usually to provide titillation, and any sort of deconstruction would probably detract from that. It would be like watching a porno and 30 seconds in the woman says "Stop, I'm just not in the mood right now" and walks of the set. It would be interesting, but would defeat the purpose of watching porn in the first place.

Not saying it's never happened, but most media seems to have enough trouble just subverting the typical "female" stereotype, never mind bimbos.

[babblingfaces]

There have been some cases of women undergoing a "bimbofication" as part of an artistic/ideological statement, as is the case of "real-life Barbie doll" Valeria Lukyanova. I've also read somewhere a statement made by Alexandra "Kissie" Nilsson where she explained the ideas behind her twelve-parts plastic surgery plan to become a bimbo, which sounded a lot like an attempt to criticize the media and the means by which many women achieve popularity and notoriety through these means today (she also describes herself as someone who likes to provoke people). Perhaps I'm misreading her, but I vaguely remember something like this. There was also an artist who created a persona for herself called Fauxy, and who started a kickstarter campaign in order to fund several plastic surgeries that would be part of an art installation based on this transformation. The kickstarter failed, however, and I wouldn't be surprised if she was never particularly serious about it either.

There's an interesting documentary, also, that may perhaps be more apt to describe as the subversion of the "trophy wife" archetype more so than the "bimbo" one, but which may nevertheless be of some interest and relevance to this discussion, which is called The Queen of Versailles and follows the real-life story of Jackie Siegel, the wife of Westgate Resorts owner David Siegel, through the company and family's financial struggle following the crisis, where she is shown to be the person in charge of keeping everything together. It's a pretty interesting documentary and well worth a look.

[Shadowsbane99]

Originally Posted by Alchemical Night

Hi there,


It's been a while since last raising a subject here, and on the Process more widely - a fact in no small part ascribed to RL and other such demands on my time. Still, that has given a little time for thought and allowance for a certain curiosity to rise to the surface.


To elaborate on the title of my post - as is a habit, I'll admit - I would like to propose two queries to the community at large, and most particularly to those who have a liking for the "Bimbo" in either representation or tendency, as seen most memorably on the site's well known "Bimbo/Mind Control" thread, and to a lesser extent in the "More general/increased beauty" thread too.


My ideas are not particularly ground breaking, though it occurred to me to circulate this curiosity, as I cannot recall seeing these, too much, around or in most recent media discussed.


1) Could it be said the popular, recognisable "Bimbo" archetype has ever been deconstructed in relevant media, or that related to our forum?


2) Has it ever been that the "Bimbo" archetype, as either a outcome or perhaps a phase, has been subverted?


All and any insight is appreciated as, though this subject is very familiar to me, I have not particularly engaged with it with the investment that others have, in the past ^^;.


Thanks,


Alchemical Night.

The concept of the "bimbo" is one that is fairly vague in what it means.

It has a lot of parallels with the Increased Beauty concept, but they are by no means the same. The IB concept is mostly, if not purely, a change in physical appearance towards the socially accepted concept of beauty (for women, slim waist, large firm breasts, smooth complexion, full lips, etc.) The bimbo concept is a mental change. If not a change in intelligence, at the very least a change in attitude. IB may have a change in attitude due to increased confidence, but bimbo implies that there has been a direct effect on the mentality of the person.

While bimbo does not have to mean stupid, it is usually associated with it. The blonde "bimbo" may actually be intelligent, but has an airy bubbly personality.

1) There are no specific instances I can think of where the media has deconstructed the bimbo archetype as stated above, though I would not be surprised if they existed.

2) Subversions of the bimbo archetype can be found in popular culture here and there, usually as a humorous way of playing with audience expectations. An example may include Trillian from Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy, who is in actuality a brilliant mathematician and astrophysicist, but plays up the fawning companion of Zaphod. An entire movie series is devoted to the subversion of what is a perceived bimbo, with the Legally Blonde movies. In those we have a character who is blonde, perky, party-going, willing to be sexy, and interested in fashion and other things people tend to associate with being vapid or shallow. The character, however, is intelligent, caring, committed, and deeper than expected.

What is vague though is what defines "bimbo". While some think it is intelligence related, I think it is more related to subservience and dependence. The bimbo archetype is usually helpless in some regard, either lacking common sense or common knowledge (such as how to use a payphone or cook toast). It is basically a form of male power fantasy, where the man has complete sovereignty over a woman by means of her sexual or intellectual dependence on the man.

What subverts this concept would be capability. Basically, a proper subversion would include a character who is perceived as a bimbo archetype, dependent on a "sugar daddy" or their "charms" to get by, and instead turns out to be surprisingly capable, either in general or in a specific fashion. This happens often enough since like I said, it can be played up for humor, or to make a point about not judging on appearances.

Deconstruction is a much different beast. It generally means creating a whole story where the troubles and concepts we have about a "bimbo" would be brought to bear. It would involve long and sad situations where the "bimbo" in question faces depression, anxiety, and abuse due to her position as the object of the dominant party. Alternatively, it could also have the "bimbo" lose the comforts of their provider and have to face the grim realities of fending for themselves.

The closest example of the latter I could think of is the webcomic Shotgun Shuffle, where the initial main character is a large busted blonde girl living with her parents, who is eventually thrown out without any form of provision. While she does still use her charms to her advantage at some points, the real world is not too nice to her and she eventually has to take a job she hates at a fast food joint, where she faces working hard for the first time in her life.

This is hardly a full deconstruction of the concept, especially since the girl is not exactly a bimbo so much as just a lazy person (initially), but it is similar to how I expect a deconstruction would be.

[brandygang]

Originally Posted by Alchemical Night

Hi there,


It's been a while since last raising a subject here, and on the Process more widely - a fact in no small part ascribed to RL and other such demands on my time. Still, that has given a little time for thought and allowance for a certain curiosity to rise to the surface.


To elaborate on the title of my post - as is a habit, I'll admit - I would like to propose two queries to the community at large, and most particularly to those who have a liking for the "Bimbo" in either representation or tendency, as seen most memorably on the site's well known "Bimbo/Mind Control" thread, and to a lesser extent in the "More general/increased beauty" thread too.


My ideas are not particularly ground breaking, though it occurred to me to circulate this curiosity, as I cannot recall seeing these, too much, around or in most recent media discussed.


1) Could it be said the popular, recognizable "Bimbo" archetype has ever been deconstructed in relevant media, or that related to our forum?


2) Has it ever been that the "Bimbo" archetype, as either a outcome or perhaps a phase, has been subverted?


All and any insight is appreciated as, though this subject is very familiar to me, I have not particularly engaged with it with the investment that others have, in the past ^^;.


Thanks,


Alchemical Night.

A very interesting topic indeed. I've often thought about this myself, what sort of routes the Bimbo genre could be taken and where it could lead for storytelling purposes. Bimbos, in the context that this site is acclimated with are largely associated with the pornographic, fetishistic aspects, (and mostly transformational) that involve women becoming less intelligent and more sexualized. It's usually an attraction of power dynamics (Gaining dominance over a now submissive, sexy woman), or often sheer humiliation.

The intelligence and desires part is usually used for the aspect of sex, making a partner more submissive because they don't have the know or self-control to refuse.

The "Increased Beauty" part is to simply make them more desirable all the while.

The purpose of these two is quite simply, for erotic reasons. To arouse those involved, to allow masturbatory aide, or so on. Because of this, things like storytelling or catharsis are omitted, and as long as this purpose is central other elements, things that would distract from it aren't desired in the genre usually. There's an expectation to it, and an internal codified logic that's always followed to achieve the eroticism desired.

Now a deconstruction takes the existing elements that people look for, and plays them seriously and up to the point where it fails to live up to yet parody's the original premise/purpose, much like Swift's Modest Proposal. It's the narrative being sarcastic with it's genre so to speak.

Given this, a deconstruction could include things that aren't desirable with bimboficiation stories. Things that break the flow, disrupt the eroticism, or just make it so the story doesn't work. But to do this however, you have to mesh them with the elements that do, the one's that people want. (Beautifying, intelligence loss, submission/dominance, ect) If you bend it too far back where your not portraying bimbos anymore, the point is lost.


I wouldn't say I know of any parody that deconstructs Bimbos thoroughly as that, but there are some fictions that have an interesting stab at it.

I remember this one story I read awhile back, it was about a whole town becoming Step-fordian, brainwashing all their women into obedient, sexy and vapid bimbo-wives. Most 'victims' in these type of stories are work bosses or college teens, and the one responsible/gaining from it a jealous boyfriend/employer or someone who basically hasn't the morals not to go through with it. A lot of people don't consider how important they are, since they're often the point where power is demonstrated, the one readers are supposed to identify with.

In this story, the wives usually had husbands, kids, and lives shown, and their husbands weren't some down-on-their-luck cads that were aching to have sexy wives. The actual Bimbofication was done from the town leaders, under a veiled conspiracy. The husbands were in on it, but couldn't object out of fear what would happen to them. Seeing the destruction of the wives as people, to braindead, sexy playthings that didn't even care for their careers or families (or in some cases only as objects to give them pleasure) was kinda grating to get at.
Eventually one of the husbands tried to sneak his wife away, fearful for their lives but successful, and sent her to a rehabilitation group. The rest of the story followed her trying to get back her mind and some sense of what'd been done to her. It takes months, and they nearly cure her at the end but, the bimbo side of her aching for a fuck remains, and the rest of her cannot stand to live without her kids and loved ones, so she goes back to be reverted for them rather than just leave alone and herself.

Actually, the Step Ford Wives alone does a pretty good job revealing the ridiculousness of the cookie-cutter perfect wive ideal, but this is for bimbos so. I think there's a certain Margaret Atwood book that does a similar concept.

[brandygang]

Originally Posted by Shadowsbane99

The concept of the "bimbo" is one that is fairly vague in what it means.

It has a lot of parallels with the Increased Beauty concept, but they are by no means the same. The IB concept is mostly, if not purely, a change in physical appearance towards the socially accepted concept of beauty (for women, slim waist, large firm breasts, smooth complexion, full lips, etc.) The bimbo concept is a mental change. If not a change in intelligence, at the very least a change in attitude. IB may have a change in attitude due to increased confidence, but bimbo implies that there has been a direct effect on the mentality of the person.

While bimbo does not have to mean stupid, it is usually associated with it. The blonde "bimbo" may actually be intelligent, but has an airy bubbly personality.

1) There are no specific instances I can think of where the media has deconstructed the bimbo archetype as stated above, though I would not be surprised if they existed.

2) Subversions of the bimbo archetype can be found in popular culture here and there, usually as a humorous way of playing with audience expectations. An example may include Trillian from Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy, who is in actuality a brilliant mathematician and astrophysicist, but plays up the fawning companion of Zaphod. An entire movie series is devoted to the subversion of what is a perceived bimbo, with the Legally Blonde movies. In those we have a character who is blonde, perky, party-going, willing to be sexy, and interested in fashion and other things people tend to associate with being vapid or shallow. The character, however, is intelligent, caring, committed, and deeper than expected.

What is vague though is what defines "bimbo". While some think it is intelligence related, I think it is more related to subservience and dependence. The bimbo archetype is usually helpless in some regard, either lacking common sense or common knowledge (such as how to use a payphone or cook toast). It is basically a form of male power fantasy, where the man has complete sovereignty over a woman by means of her sexual or intellectual dependence on the man.

What subverts this concept would be capability. Basically, a proper subversion would include a character who is perceived as a bimbo archetype, dependent on a "sugar daddy" or their "charms" to get by, and instead turns out to be surprisingly capable, either in general or in a specific fashion. This happens often enough since like I said, it can be played up for humor, or to make a point about not judging on appearances.

Deconstruction is a much different beast. It generally means creating a whole story where the troubles and concepts we have about a "bimbo" would be brought to bear. It would involve long and sad situations where the "bimbo" in question faces depression, anxiety, and abuse due to her position as the object of the dominant party. Alternatively, it could also have the "bimbo" lose the comforts of their provider and have to face the grim realities of fending for themselves.

The closest example of the latter I could think of is the webcomic Shotgun Shuffle, where the initial main character is a large busted blonde girl living with her parents, who is eventually thrown out without any form of provision. While she does still use her charms to her advantage at some points, the real world is not too nice to her and she eventually has to take a job she hates at a fast food joint, where she faces working hard for the first time in her life.

This is hardly a full deconstruction of the concept, especially since the girl is not exactly a bimbo so much as just a lazy person (initially), but it is similar to how I expect a deconstruction would be.

I'm going to agree with a lot of this, especially about bimbos not needing to be complete caricatures. Just them being either sexy, flirty or having bubbleheaded personalities can help qualify to get the point across.

From two other webcomic examples, Roxy Lalonde and Katia Managan come to mind. Roxy is flirty, happy-go-lucky blond stereotype but is by no means restricted to it. She macks on men and finds herself swooned to new figures constantly, but acknowledges it's all a front and her childish crushes are unhealthy and ultimately destructive.

She goes out of her way to quit drinking and stop hitting on her own brother and his boyfriend, but it's ultimately all for naught when she's "Trixsterfied" (A candycoated LSD mode that makes one uninhibited and insane), making her profess her love, demanding she get married and have lots of sex immediately. She's not a bona-fide bimbo, but one gets the sense it's derivative from such a standpoint because here, she's horny and demanding of sex but it's from her perspective and orders. She has dominance in this situation.

The other victim here, her own homosexual brother is terrified what she's become and how she's suddenly demanding that she sleep with him. I find that interesting because it's very rare in any story with that sort of thing that you have a male acknowledging what's gone on as wrong and completely refusing to be a participant. Would it be meaningful here if they weren't related and he was straight, and yet still disgusted by the insistence that he have sex with her? I think possibly, but with power at play here it might just bend to a NTR story anyway, since that seems to be a prevalent fetish with some regardless.

Anyway, what follows after Roxy helps get her bro and all her friends drugged up on Magic Alien spacecandy, is they wake up hung over together and have a long talk about what just happened and more of what sort of feelings and conflicts were building up far beyond that point previously. Roxy confesses here that she feels apologetic yet ashamed for her actions because she was always flirting like this veiled in humor, but all the Lollipop did was make her true feelings come to light about how lonely she was, even if her rampage wasn't an appropriate outlet for it.

For Katia Managan, the internets saddest slutcat, for her this side of her is absolutely terrifying and humiliating for her. Well she's not the brightest cat normally, alcohol is her one vice that completely flips her life over. When she gets in possession of it, she becames a raging, sex-obsessed trainwreck and it's implied she's a partygoing nymphomaniac. (She's lost count of how many partners or species she's slept with at this point) Although she doesn't remember any of it the next day, it always starts with her waking in bed naked with a new participant, to her humiliation.

The aspect of mind-control for her is explored later when despite her determination to deliver a simple letter, she's duped in a mage's guild by a sorceress using obsession-creating perfumes, which make Katia so obedient and starry eyed that she's praising and worshiping Sigrid even as she's stripping and giving away all her possessions to her. It's only after it wears off and she's naked, cold and alone in the rain out in an alleyway that she realizes the tragedy that's just been dealt, and for several pages it goes into her psyche as she tries to miserably rationalize her role as a victim after.

Bane spoke of "Bimbo" (or here atleast sex-addicted) characters needing to cope with the kind of depression and abuse that would come with any real stigma in reality. Here in these example's it's dealt with a lot more, giving weight and consequences to these actions and having the characters realize the depravity of it and dwelling into their thoughts and emotions over someone who has to suffer that sort of thing. It's not a direct deconstruction, but I believe it paints a more introspective look at the whole concept.