TF Psychoanalytic Discussion

[brandygang]

Originally Posted by Peanutt_Buta

I can respect that, but I do not feel the same way about reversions. Once a permanent transformation is done and if their human mind is overwhelmed and taken over by baser instincts, the story for that character is pretty much over.

That's understandable. I often feel the opposite way about Transformations where Identity isn't completely gone, including some feral ones. Corruption especially.

So a victim might have their mind changed or hijacked. Alright, but how much of themselves still remains? Do they keep the same personality and preferences, all the little things that make them them regardless? ("I may be wolfslave 96 of the Were-Maestro but I'll be damned if I don't still like Icecream and Soap Operas!") Are they a permanent fixture and footnote of whoever or whatever changed them, or do they regain some sense of independence and differing sense of self once that's gone. What if they have some anyway even before that and decide to dispose of their transforming agent, can they rebel against their situation?

What about their friends, do they still recognize them? Do the feel tempted to share their Transformation, would they even still ACCEPT them like that? So many good scenarios here.

Turnarounds are a really fascinating thing for me. I know that for most people they're cockblockers and boner killers that kill any interest, but for me they raise the kinkiness even further. Transformations, reverted or not have lasting consequences that need to be dealt with are included.

[Dark Horseman]

@Peanutt_Buta It's all good since there's no right or wrong with fetishes, just preferences. While I think reversion can be cool, I believe it stops being sexual. You can tell a great story with a shapeshifter character; one of my favorite YA books was Dragon of the Lost Sea which involved a shapeshifting dragon princess and an orphaned boy. In no way is reversion a lame subject; it just sets a different tempo. But I do have the same taste in regard to preservation of the mind. Maintaining their original identity is best, corruption can be fun or interesting if drawn out and done very well, but loss of sentience is really just quite sad. It's very much like getting attached and aroused by a character only to have the artist/author kill them suddenly at the very end.

@brandy gang While it's always a fun theme of having the character deal with the reaction of others, it just strikes me as awkward if the other characters actually want to be changed into the same thing. It's really immersion-breaking imo. "Oh you're a demon-girl now? That's hot. Make me one, too." Or a typical theme is a couple willing to change into animals to experience sex in a different way; it's just very odd trying to justify the rationale behind it, especially if the piece is trying to tell a story.

[aresx]

i like my tf's simple.

i feel like i'm one of the few people that are ok with completely random TF's. ones that simply happen for no reason. i'm only really into forced tf's as well. don't really get the appeal if the person involved enjoys it. i guess it has it's place if the tf is pleasurable itself, but they have to hate that they're enjoying it.
full animal is also my bag almost exclusively. very rarely do i fully enjoy an anthro animal tf. it just seems like a big cock tease. "Oh you were enjoying this person lose their humanity? Let's just stop now" is the vibe that i get from it. i am also into identity death or a complete mental overhaul as well. i know that its very unpopular thing to enjoy, but honestly it's one of my biggest loves in all of the fandom.

also, cats, dogs, cows, horses, donkeys are my all time favs
no offence intended to anyone who enjoys the things i dont'

[brandygang]

Dark Horseman, I agree. It can be kind of weird to have characters demanding to be changed. My interest in that sort of demand from the transformed is usually out of respect to their continuing relation with their former identity. Since I imagine being Transformed, corrupted or Brainwashed leads to a rather fundamentally differing process. You don't feel quite the same, not really like you. So do things about 'you' that use to apply to 'you' (Your home, interests, old friends and loved ones, ect) still apply?

In a way asking others to critique or even share in their transformation, is a kind of assessing the truth in that. Finding out where 'you' are now, what's there, what's gone, what's unobtainable and what can be redeemed. Refiguring your whole life and Identity. I find the whole exploration of this incredibly erotic.

As much as I think it's a cliche (and thanks to movies like Twilight made pretty horrible and Bella this trope taken to near-parody), this is done a lot with vampires. Especially Vampire ladies and lovers, but for some reason Vampires seem to get more depth and sympathy in this kind of treatment than any other genre monster I know.

@aresx

I can vibe with most of that. Never really got voluntary transformations, unless it's for some kind of Powerplay. Without any tradeoff or compromise of will it just seems like a self-indulgent fantasy, as opposed to one framed as a fetish.

For example there's a lot of Girly and Stereotypical transformations I used to think I'd enjoy, but realized it's actually pretty horrifying without any mental changes. You're stuck in this new body without any sense of what to do with it, your life is made a mess of and everythings chaotic. Maybe it's a humiliation thing? I don't know, but unless I have some sliver of "Identity" or mindset corresponding with the new form I'm in it's too traumatic to think about enjoying. Like if one is suddenly in the body of a near stripper, sure they might cop a feel or tease at first but what than?

Contrary to what most TG fetishes would have you believe, being a girl is not a super sweet sugar rush experience where everything is now sunshine and rainbows. It's periods and a weaker stature and sexism and discrimination, and following that just normal human experience. There's too much more to the reality of it that would follow after the first , like a punch of reality to the gut.

However, if given the identity changes and mental erasure to deal with it, than it's far less of an issue. It's not as jarring if ones lived like that their whole life and just assume it as normal everyday life.

Having to live and think like a Cat has always been a weird interest of mine also. As much as anything else I suppose.

[jolem]

I feel a little intimidated by this thread but not only because of the amount of intelligence you guys are displaying but how many of you guys actually hate furry/anthro characters. While I'm glad that most of you guys like TF for the actual process (what this forum is all about) both mental and physical, I just feel like it's somehow unfair to them or if the victim's final form just happens to be half-human. Also, while your dislike for these type of characters are somewhat understandable in certain situations (like hyper *shivers*), I feel like the problem is the same for other people who vehemently hates furry characters: You see the animal instead of the person. What doesn't help matters in that regard is that almost half of them made by almost half of the fandom are actually meant to be animals anyway.

Anyway back on topic, brandygang's reply to aresx kinda put things into perspective about mental TFs. However I believe the opposite and I think the character can find a way to move on and live the life they want to live without the mental TF. Though I think it's because I think I like people trying to combat discrimination which will test on other people's limits on their kindness. I think one of my main psyche when it comes to TF is for the character to fight the mental changes and come out top to be themselves and then trying to get others to see that they are themselves. However I understand not all kinds of people can even do that, but I think it's something I want to see besides the standard ending of TFs I've seen around here.

Edit: Looks like I still have some time, I don't want my computer to mess up on me again. Another thing that I wanted to add is that I want to know more about this particular part of mental TFs: Where the victim turns into a sex-crazed lunatic. Well, the lunatic part may be an over exaggeration, but I wonder if how many of you actually like that kind of ending and if any of you actually believe that this will turn out okay for the rest of the victim's lives? The those of you that actually like mental TFs, most particularly the full ones. I feel like there should be some sort of deconstruction where the victim is like that but the culprit ended up learning that it's not exactly a good thing for their victim to think of sex and only sex all day.

[Peanutt_Buta]

Originally Posted by jolem

Edit: Looks like I still have some time, I don't want my computer to mess up on me again. Another thing that I wanted to add is that I want to know more about this particular part of mental TFs: Where the victim turns into a sex-crazed lunatic. Well, the lunatic part may be an over exaggeration, but I wonder if how many of you actually like that kind of ending and if any of you actually believe that this will turn out okay for the rest of the victim's lives? The those of you that actually like mental TFs, most particularly the full ones. I feel like there should be some sort of deconstruction where the victim is like that but the culprit ended up learning that it's not exactly a good thing for their victim to think of sex and only sex all day.

I like this idea. I'll play with this in a future story.

I also want to address my perception of Furries. I think that, like any group of people, that there are the good, the bad, and the ugly.

The good are usually the kind of people who don't perpetuate the standard stereotypical Furries. They may quietly regard themselves as one, or kind of one but they are comfortable with it and understand the stigma that may be attached with being one. They look at Furry porn or make a Furry character but for the most part are harmless or try their best to be non-confrontational. I always believe that the good are usually the largest part of the community but are the unsung members.

The bad are usually the kind of people who, unlike the above, do perpetuate the standard stereotypical Furries. They may be overly proud to be Furries and may defend the community strongly... sometimes this is justified because it's often attacked or they feel there is too strong of an aggressive atmosphere toward the community that they feel is unnecessary or uncalled for. Still, their attitude can get them into trouble and they could even upset other Furries or even potential Furries who do not feel as strongly or as passionate as they do. I'd say most people who are exposed to the Furry community will run into these type of people most of the time since they're not afraid to expose themselves. So their passion can be seen as creepy, sick, or disturbing.

Then, there are the unaccounted for, that can be a bit of both of the above groups, the ugly. These are people who are either closet Furries or are people who have become exposed to the community by someone from the Bad pool, so their perception of the community may be completely distorted based on what little they have found. Mostly, these people are hypocritical and attack the fandom openly, maybe even work to shut down certain sites but continue to browse around for Furry content. It's impossible to count these people as some of them are not actually in the community but may be former members, potential members, or just simply anti-Furry.

I should explain that this sort of paradigm doesn't just apply to Furries, but can apply to other groups of people as well. I feel it applies here. I don't consider myself a Furry, nor do I hate them so I would not fall into any archetype that I put here. I understand they have a bad reputation, but I don't feel obligated to perpetuate the stigma that some people have. Basically, bad eggs will always smell stronger and be more noticeable than good eggs, but it doesn't mean they're all bad. I'm not saying people who are anti- anything are not justified, merely that sometimes it's best to understand that exposure doesn't always mean complete exposure and that it's best to always keep an open mind.

[Dark Horseman]

@brandygang Yeah, regarding the tg or bimbo transformations, almost every single submission has them enjoying it or wanting sex profusely. This is actually extremely unrealistic unless the character already identifies as pre-transgender, and even then, the vast majority of real transgendered don't choose to change for sexual reasons. This was brought to my attention recently when I wanted to see how DNA Extreme (the kickstarter tg game) was doing on Steam and was mind blown after reading the reviews: Real transgendered people bought the game thinking it would demonstrate the social stigma associated with being transgender and lambasted the game for treating the issue as just fetish material. Since then, any tg material I come across seems completely immersion-breaking if the characters simply have no inner turmoil and rejoices over it while other characters act like it's no big deal. It's like pizza-guy porn plot now; can still be good with hot actors but silly and forgettable.

@jolem On the contrary, I prefer my transformations 75% animal for some species. A tf into a dragon or horse, for example, should have the victim on all fours but you should still be able to link them to the original character somehow: human traits, hair, eye color, something that can make that picture stand alone and let people know who it is; otherwise it's just some random animal someone drew.

And as for the furry-hate, that may be due to the uncanny-valley issue: they look too close to human but not enough and it turns people off (in contrast to animal/monster women in games/media who are just chicks wearing slutty cosplay). But I'm sure anthro is the preferred for species like werewolves, catgirls, and such because that's how they're actually represented in mainstream media. When it's a walking horse, fox, or bird, I think people start to get weirded out. And it might just be because they have a distaste for furry-fandom that they have a knee-jerk reaction to it; that's what I learned about the audience in 4-chan who are vehement furry-haters. Personally I feel furries supply like 90% of animal TF art anyway, so hating them while having a tf fetish is contradictory.